crooked tongues magazine News Features

How a brand is perceived here and how it's seen overseas are two very different things. We Brits know the power of Reebok Classics. Ice soles, gleaming white leather and the enduring power of the Pump keep it fresh in our memories, but in the States — while the performance wing is still making moves — at trend level, Reebok's role had slipped since those glory days of the 1980s where garment leather helped the brand become number one globally, even if they were never destined for the gym or an aerobics class, or when the brand was the first to make a shoe that Pumped. Where could you go from there? In many ways Reebok's high concept led them to tumble in the 1990s, but there's a unique design language there and a formidable archive. Reebok's got some icons in the vault, and while recent years have seen some excellent work (the retro program has stepped up considerably), something bigger was needed to shout the message to a bigger audience.

When it comes to shouting, Swizz Beatz is as good as it gets.

Just as Reebok's market share dwindled post-Pump, Harlem's Swizz Beatz owned the late '90s in terms of audio. Those keyboards? That Tunnel-era Ruff Ryders sound? Kids still get rowdy to that. Not just the old timers, having Prada and Moschino flashbacks, but kids. That's because the drums, chops and bellowing from Swizz has cropped up on nearly every key album over the last thirteen years. You can even hear Swizz doing a substantial amount of work on Beyonce's latest, and he's set to appear on 'Watch the Crown' multiple times too. Kasseem Daoud Dean is the producer's producer. But as a Creative Director for Reebok Classics? We weren't convinced when we saw that wheat pasting viral or the shoe on Twitter — he's got energy, but we wrote the mystery shoe off as Yeezy-lite. Then we sat down with Swizz Beatz and his energy and conviction won us over. He really means it.

The G-Units were never our thing, but those Jay-Z S. Carters were kind of ahead-of-their-time and would have thrived in the blog environment that sprang up since they made a splash. An update on the Shawn Kemp Kamikaze shoe was the start of something bigger — and you might have noticed the recent slew of updates using Reebok's Classic DNA of late — that's all set to roll out over the next few months. Add VERBAL — of Ambush — into the mix as Asia's Creative Director and it all makes even more sense.

We spoke to Swizz in London and around last week's star-studded New York launch last week, and also chatted with Todd Krinsky - Global Head of Classics - about how the appointment came about.

TODD KRINSKY (GLOBAL HEAD OF CLASSICS)

Todd, why Swizz?

The thing about Swizz is that he's into so many different things. He's into all this stuff. The other thing we started to notice is that because he's a producer, everyone comes to him for hits. It's not that the has power by yelling over people, it's that they respect him, like, "Yo, I need a hit."

He's a producer's producer.

Yeah. He's someone that has the respect of the music community. As a result of that, they listen to him beyond just music. He's talking about Basquiat and he could influence a lot of people. The idea was to find someone who's just a little bit different and what we started to learn about him was that he's so into things. The first time that we spoke to him we knew — he's into fashion, music, art and life - just looking into why things are the way they are. So we knew it would be different.

He's professional. He's not a single-sentence dude.

He's a thinker. He asks a lot of questions. He has a methodical approach. He knows when to put music out and he knows when to talk about the Kamikaze. He likes to engage people. He likes to talk about what's going on and why.

The notion of a reinvention is generally a bad thing for any big brand — was it tough to broach the idea that maybe Classics wasn't hitting as hard as it could? Did you have to produce numbers?

I grew up collecting shoes. I worked with it for almost fifteen years and I was pretty much burned out. So I moved into sports marketing and entertainment marketing where I was just looking at contracts. Then they were like, "We need you to come back and do this." I told them that the only way we could do this is if we were open to change and understanding that we're nowhere right now. We can't just do the little things. We need change, we need new people, new designers and a new approach. To be honest with you, the president of the brand was like, "Okay — we need a fresh new approach, we need smart thinking and new ideas." They were open to change. You've done so much damage to the brand when you're stuck selling things at low prices and you do need to call time out.

In the UK, it's like Reebok never really went away though.

For the sneakerhead it never really went away. But for the average kid, it started to drop.

We still love the Classic with the ice sole. We're glad the garment leather pack was released, but it really needs to go to an audience that doesn't care for the heritage. But still, Reebok troubled Nike in the 1980s — are you looking to take that market share back? The archive's pretty amazing.

Reebok was synonymous with comfort and with the Kamikaze and the vintage pieces made stitch-for-stitch, we're trying to get bigger distribution. You're right about the archives and in the early '80s it was all about that vintage stuff. In the late '80s we really had this identifiable Reebok look.

The H-strap and exposed EVA were awesome.

Then into the early '90s, we had some success with the sports stuff with Shaq and Iverson. Then in the late '90s — like late '98 and '99 — the wheels fell off. I think we tried to be other brands and lost the vision.

The Pump Fury is a thing of beauty. Will that be given a push Stateside?

That's a big shoe in Japan.

We saw VERBAL wearing his.

Yeah, I was talking to him about the ones he doesn't own yet — like the Chanel one and the Jackie Chan ones.

That was around 2003, and that Chanel take on the Fury and Jay using the Gucci look seems a little ahead of its time with the high-end DNA. Do you think with Swizz embracing social media, with that immediacy, and the blog thing — could those projects have benefited from the current internet media infrastructure?

Definitely. You look at the Fury in the United States right now and kids don't get it. Even a lot of sneakerhead kids are so used to wearing the court based vintage that they don't understand the medium of what it is. And there's been few outlets to tell that story. But the coolest thing is that they can hear the story from Japan now.

Road Fury was one of the greatest shoes ever.

Yeah, true. We're looking at all that stuff now because as the brand gets hotter we're more accepting of it. We haven't been able to look at it. We haven't really had a full archive for the sneakerhead.

I've delved into the archive before. I love the tech wars of the late '80s. There's so many stories.

There's a lot of stories.

Even the digital read out Pump sample.

Yup, and Nike had a pump shoe for a minute.

I kind of like how the Pump seemed rush released for late '89 to be there first, but then it was honed with stuff like the Twilight Zone the following year. Those archive elements are amazing — will they be worked in somehow?

Yeah, I'm working with such a young generation of kids right now, you know? So we're trying to put together a history — as we get cooler, we want to be tougher critically.

Even the Iverson hookup — the braids and tattoos— was an incredible move.

It's important that where we tell the stories is broader reaching. A lot of people don't know what's gone on with Reebok. The Sneaker Freaker 'Witness the Fitness' thing was one idea — we have to tell those stories.

It's all there.

If you look at the early '90s, there was a period of time where we decided to just do our own thing — there were these really bold graphic shoes like the Blast, the Kamikaze, the Shaqnosis, the Pump Run, the first Iverson. All those shoes made no apologies for being brash. That era is what we're trying to capture now. As well as the vintage stuff, that's a really robust era — we're modernising that.

The Blast was underrated. Bringing on somebody like Swizz as a creative director is interesting — are musicians more important to a brand than a sportsman?

That's a really, really interesting question and something that we debate all the time. When we first signed Jay, we were feeling that kids looked to musicians — their mannerisms, their fashions, their attitude — more than they do basketball and football players. There'll always be both, but I think kids today are looking more at musicians for fashion inspiration than sports.

It's far bigger than seeding.

Where we go from here is important. We have so many ideas. We're nimble. It's not some big corporate thing where it has to be run through ten people. We've always been hands on. We're open to whatever we can do. We have the product.

SWIZZ BEATZ (CREATIVE DIRECTOR OF CLASSICS)

Swizz, how did you get involved with Classics?

A mutual friend brought us together. I was coming out the Christian Laboutin collaboration and Reebok indicated that they'd like to get involved. I met with the team and went for an interview. I was intrigued by the questions that they asked — it felt like 'Punk'd' a little bit and I answered them. Four people with pens and pads were writing down everything I said. I was like, "Are they stealing my ideas?" They really went detailed and knew what they wanted. They wanted somebody who could do new things and I fitted the category. And it was show time.

We remember the Pumps on the opening sequence of 'Juice' which was set in Harlem — how did they relate to you growing up as Harlemite?

The Pumps were definitely a bigger introduction — they had the bells and whistles and made you think that you could run faster or dunk higher. Once people thought about these things it was the perfect example of a classic piece. People can move around in the Kamikazes. Reebok make the most comfortable sneaker - they never cut any corners.

Have you seen the archives?

They've got crazy stuff. Going to the factory and seeing them having doctors there I thought I was in 'Back to the Future' right there. They had the guy that developed the shoes back in the day still there, crafting and moulding. Building the shoe is a science project, looking at how it moves and how it'll react to your foot sweating.

Did you want to get some performance in the Kamikaze?

I didn't have to check on them for comfort. My thing was the colours, the materials and how we'd get them out. The Kamikaze is just the launch. I'm already done with the 2012 capsule. I'm a superfan of the original Kamikaze, but never in a million years did I think that I'd be part of that shoe being relaunched. I wanted to be more than an endorser — I wanted to be an ambassador and a partner and make some decisions that could touch our culture. To come with a Swizz Beatz would waste our time — it would depend on hit records. To creative direct we can improve and work with musical people, athletic people and the regular person on the street that has talent. There's longevity with that. There's not so much if I just hold up a sneaker and say, "Oh, this is the Swizzy!" For me, doing things in the non-traditional way is the only way to move forward.

So you're aiming to do something that's not temporary? Now failure can become a Trending Topic. Run-DMC's Fleetwood and Brougham were great, I liked the S. Carter, but the Master P shoes became a Lloyd Banks freestyle. Did you think about having a sneaker back in the early '00s?

It turned me away from thinking about a shoe. The only way I could enter that market was to do it in a prestigious way like I did with Christian Louboutin and then entering Reebok in a super-unique way where I'm not compared to those ventures that went before me. I don't want to be compared to the S. Carter, the G-Unit or Ice Cream — I'm doing something different to all those. I don't want to be compared to what Kanye is doing. I want to be compared to what I'm doing. I'm doing something different. We're working it into a whole new executive side. We're not saying Swizzy's back — we're saying that Reebok is back and it's a big statement.

Do you have a big say on the actual shoes beyond the colours and applications — have you picked up anything and just gone, "Nah"?

We did that a couple of times. I would say, "You do what you want with that but I can't be buying that." There's things you can do but I want to get behind things that take it to the next level. Things could hurt the brand and hurt my name. We have to stay away from them.

If an album bricks nowadays, it just disappears into a long tail on iTunes. A shoe still gathers dust.

The sneaker thing's not for everybody. A lot of my peers did it. I'm taking a different approach. What they did was pretty cool.

I like the S. Carter.

When they came out they was comfortable. People were wearing them.

It's a heavy co-sign. You haven't shied away from the assumption that the Kamikaze III is a Swizzy shoe. 

I'm part of the design, with the colour ups, but it's not a Swizzy shoe — it's the Kamikaze. 

The whole 1995 connection to Shawn Kemp, the Iverson Hexalite and all those connotations are there, but because it's not a Swizz Beatz sneaker it's a nice way to avoid becoming a Lloyd Banks punchline.

Even though I would make the best Swizz Beatz sneaker ever, I just think I've got more to offer to the culture than it being all about me. I want to pass the baton. 

Is it a coincidence that the Kamikaze III kind of echoes your sonic approach? there's a lot going on. There's a big difference between a Premier beat and a Swizz beat.

Absolutely. The way I picked colours and the way that we picked materials and the way we go in with the shoe reflect a lot of my inspirations. My inspirations come from people out there in the streets. My inspirations are the people.  I get inspired on seeing people — I like to go left with colourways like the pumpkin, people like to feel that they're getting something that's fun and not forced on them. We're building something from the ground up. We have a penthouse and we have a basement. Now we need to fill it in. 

It's funny to hear that you really fucked with the formula with regards to product turnaround. You can get bored with something in twelve months. You sped that up.

I had to. We turned around real quick.

Were salesmen cursing you? 

Nah, they loved it. They knew that coming soon meant coming real soon. I was peeping out the scene and people are going into UK stores and looking for the Kamikaze. 

You're far more of a singles artist as a solo artist — both albums had too much going on to market traditionally. It's a sound that suits the shock and awe approach to marketing — just dropping it, like BANG it's out there.

I like that. 

You know promotion and you've dealt with major labels — are you taking those lessons and applying it to footwear?

I'm applying it to life. My thing is, "Look man, don't wait for it to get it - make your own path." It's easy for us to do something and throw it on someone else's lap to deliver. This is my life and my career. Nobody's gonna deliver it like you. I've been blessed to be able to do it like I want to and not be signed to anyone. Videos, marketing campaigns…I don't need that pressure for one week of sales when I could make impact — I don't want it on an album. I want people to say, "Man, I remember when you made this and it was crazy!" With the Kamikaze, people will remember when I said Reebok was back and the Kamikaze came out. Those are moments. 

One hour of the picture on Twitter and conventional marketing was out the window. People can create their own buzz. A lot of artists I like who were reluctant to use Twitter and generate their own buzz have fallen by the wayside. The new climate rewards those with energy.

You have to. You have to address the masses. You have to get that feedback and have open communication. I can't leave Twitter alone for a week. i have dedicated fans who wake and read the Tweets. 

You go in.

I go in and I get results. It's a big part of why I'm here now. I don't have a Facebook. I I have Twitter and I have Swizzworld. Those are my ways of communicating to the people. When I decided to get on Facebook, I had too much going on already. I had my assistant set up a Facebook but I've never been there once. 

It's good for retail but less for a personality thing. You give stuff away that could be on albums. 

Man, I was mad at the Lil' Wayne leak at first, but at least it go its time to shine.

We watch AraabMUZIK in the studio all the time in the office that energy reminds us of your work...

He did something for me recently.

You go in too on the MPC — we've seen snippets and heard the stories — are there any plans to incorporate that energy into an ad for the shoe?

He reminds me of myself when I was younger.

It's a shame that the Ruff Ryders era was before the YouTube video upload era blew up…even the 'Blow Your Mind' session years later would be cool to watch. 

That would be wild. 

The drop 'R' restoration of the Reebok logo is good. Did you have any input there?

Putting the old Reebok logo on everything — it's a new movement, a new look. a new style and a new generation and it's something you can wear it easily. 

The gear's interesting. Especially the leather jacket.

The jacket's crazy. It's upscale quality. My thing is, if I can wear it I can't push it. 

If I see someone wearing something and they look uncomfortable, I'm not buying into it. 

Absolutely. You see it and you're like, "Damn!" You don't want to wear that!

As far as Reebok and rap, we heard references to the 54.11 then some kind of negative talk from Foxy on the first Jay LP with "Reebok broads"and then New Orleans guys like Soulja Slim wearing Classics — were you paying attention to the regional perceptions of the brand?

Yeah, that shoe was huge — they called it the Soldier. I mean, you've seen Wayne with the hat on. He's bringing a lot of thing. I did some crazy colours for Wayne. 

We want to see YMCMB versions. The Soldier was an interesting moment for the brand. 

Yeah, 100%.

Have you watched how Reebok is perceived in the UK? You saw the gum soles, right?

Watch how I'm gonna do those!

Gum soles on Reebok is a big part of our childhoods. 

It was a big thing back home as well. When it comes to bringing back Classics I want to do it in a unique way. I want there to be themes like the gum bottoms

The ice bottoms, the navy…

….the cream, the red, the blue — all that stuff in four packs for crazy campaigns and crazy imagery. 

The Classic is huge here. Did you see any around?

I may launch it here— people always want what they can't get — people here have been going crazy about the Kamikaze, talking on Twitter about it. There's kind of a way that you have to do things — do 'Reebok Back' UK and introduce gum bottoms and get people talking.

That would be a good thing. Country specific releases are always interesting. It can be hard to explain to an exec in Boston that the local scene is different a long, long way away. ZigTech might be big in America's Midwest, but it might be a tougher sell in the UK. 

When you get different areas you need to know what people like. I have a person that does analytics for me. All they do is analytics and I know who's doing what and I can pinpoint and hit targets. A lot of people aren't thinking about analytics but you're not everywhere at once. How are you going to know what the world is thinking and wearing? 

I would love to hear analytics namechecked lyrically! Nobody can argue with numbers.

Showing everything and having it laid out is great. I really have fun doing it. Without that you can't justify what you're doing. 

Do you apply that to music. There's a method there somewhere to making a club move.

I'm not as critical when it comes to music as I am there — the fanbase isn't just mine, it's other people's. Whether it's Jay or Bono, all we have to do is a hit song and we're gone. But doing different things, reintroducing things to new territories, you have to educate yourself on those frontlines. It's like military strategy — you need to know which way to turn. It's atrategic planning.

We know key American athletes — we know Kobe, Michael and Allen, but a lot are a mystery.

Thierry Henry is my neighbour and he can walk around New York and nobody knows who he is, but over here, he'd be bombarded.

Iverson is one of the most influential athletes ever — he birthed that cornrow tattoo thing. Are you looking to crossover with him?

I've been studying! He does a lot of great things. 

Music's probably sold us shoes more than sport. It's about more than seeding shoes to artists and letting them take over. Do you think other brands will copy the Reebok and Swizz approach to promotion?

They will. They have to. And as long as we were the first ones doing it, that makes us more powerful. While they're copying us, we're doing something new. It's critical for us to take over Summer Jam, have the video shot and have more clips in the hand ready to go because I got personal calls from people inside brands — we're talking high level stuff — and I take that very serious. Even the athletes.

It can only be positive for artists, right? They've been show ponies beneath athletes but they're arguably just as relevant today. They're usually more charismatic than an an athlete. 

I'm just real with it. I'm serious about creating history with this brand. I'm all the way in. I want everybody to understand what my passion is and answer any question.

We heard that there's women and baby lines coming. Is your wife involved?

There is and I don't know if she'll be involved. It's an open door. Let's make this clear — there's going to be a movement. The things I have lined up are legendary.

Where's the 'Ima Boss' remix?

They got some new collaborations waiting to get on it. Everybody wants to get on it.

Meek goes hard on 'Reebok's Back' — you don't need to go that hard on a record that's effectively promo.

100%. He went hard.

How did Rick Ross get involved?

It was just a phone call away! One thing with any partner is that they have to be a true fan of what we're doing. It's not a true partnership or favour or whatever you want to call it unless they really mean it and he has that tone that Reebok is back.

Were you in the studio when they recorded it?

They were in another place, but I knew they had it. It was too easy! My thing is not to compete with what's out there.

That's the beat of the summer though. How do you top that?

You'll see!

How are you looking build on this movement? Will it move from the hip-hop side?

Oh yeah. One more hip-hop element that I'm working on and then that's it. At the end of the day you don't have to build on the hip-hop for it to be hip-hop — you just need to be fresh.

Hip-hop's blown up. You couldn't sing on a record back in the day without being accused of being soft.

Yeah, Now people are more broad minded.

Why are fans more open to new shit?

You have to know how to manage your brand. Even with the brand right now we're being very conscious. We've got the hype which is the runway, but when we take off, how do we make sure people stay looking in the air? We don't want people to see it when it lands. When it lands, the trip is over.

Do you find it hard not to step back and kick back?

Nah! We just starting.

Are there more models coming out soon?

We have a bunch of capsules — I just finished six capsules...craziness.

Are your building on the crew in the 'Reebok's Back' video? You probably have a lot of people on the BlackBerry at any given time. 

At any given time, I could pull the pin and mess everybody's game up. I have that kind of chess piece lined up if anyone wants to misbehave!

Corporate hate in the sportswear industry is way bigger than music industry hate.

Trust me when I tell you that we're planned strategically at all levels. I have a secret weapon. You'll call me the day I choose to announce it. You can't imagine it!

Is it Bono? Did you get him in a pair of Kamikazes?

Nah! I wouldn't get Bono a pair — that's too extreme. But getting hold of him's nothing to me. That's just a phone call away! That's too easy! This move is more strategic than that. It'll make headlines. I'll leave it at that. 

THE REEBOK KAMIKAZE III IS AVAILABLE IN THE CROOKED STORE NOW. CHECK OUT WWW.WERCLASSIC.COM FOR SOME BEHIND-THE-SCENES ON THE LATEST CAMPAIGN.